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	<title>Xophoros &#187; Atheism</title>
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		<title>Agnostics: Closet atheists or unreasonable theists?</title>
		<link>http://www.xophoros.com/blog/2010/05/agnostics-closet-atheists-or-unreasonable-theists/</link>
		<comments>http://www.xophoros.com/blog/2010/05/agnostics-closet-atheists-or-unreasonable-theists/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 04:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kristopher</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Agnosticism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xophoros.com/blog/?p=173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the question of whether you believe a god exists, you can only be a theist or an atheist. Gnosticism addresses a different question: Whether you know, or believe it is possible to know, (gnostic) or not (agnostic). Since they are separate questions, you can mix them any way you want. When someone says they are an agnostic, they are not revealing whether or not they believe in a god. They are expressing whether or not they have that knowledge, or whether they think it is possible to have that knowledge.

Here is a rough breakdown of possible mixes. If you say:
<ul>
	<li>I don't know if a god exists, and I don't believe in any particular god. Then you are an atheist (agnostic).</li>
	<li>It is possible to know whether a god exists, and I know that no god exists. Then you are an atheist (gnostic).</li>
	<li>I don't know if a god exists, but I believe a god exists. Then you are a theist (agnostic).</li>
	<li>It is possible to know whether a god exists, and I know that a god exists. Then you are a theist (gnostic).</li>
</ul>
<p>&#160;</p>
<blockquote>Isn't an agnostic just an atheist without balls?
~Steven Colbert</blockquote>
In my experience, I have found that most people who call themselves agnostics are actually atheists, but are either wanting to avoid the scary label of atheist, or don't understand that the definition of atheist includes themselves. The latter seems to be the most common, and was my category before I learned that I actually was an atheist.

The problems I have with the self-labeling of "Agnostic" on the question of god are the following:
<ul>
	<li>It completely dodges the question of god, and answers a different question about knowledge.</li>
	<li>It implicitly mis-characterizes atheism as only gnostic atheism (i.e. the affirmative claim that <em>no</em> God exists).</li>
	<li>It reinforces misconceptions about atheism.</li>
</ul>
<p>&#160;</p>
I have found that some people who label themselves agnostics or agnostic theists, believe in some sort of nebulous pantheistic divinity, many of which will describe that deity as something like "energy" or "nature" or "love." Now agnosticism can be a philosophically interesting topic and should be the default position on any claim that doesn't have evidence. However, it just seems silly and unreasonable to say that you don't have any kind of knowledge about something, and then to continue conjecturing about what you think its attributes or qualities are, when you still have no reason to believe it exists in the first place. And if you are going to define god as energy or nature, then you are detracting from both words' meaning by conflating them or making them otherwise ambiguous. Doing this is less than helpful in any conversation where you are trying to convey your belief in a god. Of course this is just my point of view, but I would honestly like to know what people who call themselves agnostic theists, really believe, and what reasons they have for believing it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the question of whether you believe a god exists, you can only be either a theist or an atheist. Gnosticism addresses a different question: Whether you know, or believe it is possible to know, (gnostic) or not (agnostic). Since they are separate questions, you can mix them any way you want. When someone says they are an agnostic, they are not revealing whether or not they believe in a god. They are expressing whether or not they have that knowledge, or whether they think it is possible to have that knowledge.</p>
<p>Here is a rough breakdown of possible mixes. If you say:</p>
<ul>
<li>I don&#8217;t know if a god exists, and I don&#8217;t believe in any particular god. Then you are an atheist (agnostic).</li>
<li>It is possible to know whether a god exists, and I know that no god exists. Then you are an atheist (gnostic).</li>
<li>I don&#8217;t know if a god exists, but I believe a god exists. Then you are a theist (agnostic).</li>
<li>It is possible to know whether a god exists, and I know that a god exists. Then you are a theist (gnostic).</li>
</ul>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<blockquote><p>Isn&#8217;t an agnostic just an atheist without balls?<br />
~Steven Colbert</p></blockquote>
<p>In my experience, I have found that most people who call themselves agnostics are actually atheists, but are either wanting to avoid the scary label of atheist, or don&#8217;t understand that the definition of atheist includes themselves. The latter seems to be the most common, and was my category before I learned that I actually was an atheist.</p>
<p>The problems I have with the self-labeling of &#8220;Agnostic&#8221; on the question of god are the following:</p>
<ul>
<li>It completely dodges the question of god, and answers a different question about knowledge.</li>
<li>It implicitly mis-characterizes atheism as only gnostic atheism (i.e. the affirmative claim that <em>no</em> God exists).</li>
<li>It reinforces misconceptions about atheism.</li>
</ul>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I have found that some people who label themselves agnostics or agnostic theists, believe in some sort of nebulous pantheistic divinity, many of which will describe that deity as something like &#8220;energy&#8221; or &#8220;nature&#8221; or &#8220;love.&#8221; Now agnosticism can be a philosophically interesting topic and should be the default position on any claim that doesn&#8217;t have evidence. However, it just seems silly and unreasonable to say that you don&#8217;t have any kind of knowledge about something, and then to continue conjecturing about what you think its attributes or qualities are, when you still have no reason to believe it exists in the first place. And if you are going to define god as energy or nature, then you are detracting from both words&#8217; meaning by conflating them or making them otherwise ambiguous. Doing this is less than helpful in any conversation where you are trying to convey your belief in a god. Of course this is just my point of view, but I would honestly like to know what people who call themselves agnostic theists, really believe, and what reasons they have for believing it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>5</slash:comments>
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		<title>Theism and Beef</title>
		<link>http://www.xophoros.com/blog/2010/01/theism-and-beef/</link>
		<comments>http://www.xophoros.com/blog/2010/01/theism-and-beef/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 04:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kristopher</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Indoctrination]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lds]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[leprechauns]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[superstition]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xophoros.com/blog/?p=31</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I spent the first 22 years of my life being a devout theist; or more specifically, a deeply indoctrinated <a href="http://www.mormon.org/">Mormon</a>. I'm not going to go into the details right now, but just know that religion has played a big part in my life and the lives of those closest to me. My desire to post on the topic of theism should therefore be an obvious or likely one.

Thanks to many good influences in my life, I have gradually been able to unlearn the myriad superstitions and untie the blindfolds. Over the last couple years, I have finally found peace and comfort in calling myself an atheist, although I must admit that I stopped believing in the church of my upbringing about 8 years ago. "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism">Atheist</a>" has always been a much scorned word and label that has persistently been the target of unnecessary hate and violence. Indeed the Mormon leaders have felt it necessary to declare a "new battle ... against atheism" (<a href="http://nowscape.com/atheism/trib0996.htm">1996 President Gordon B. Hinckley</a>). This is likely because "Atheism has always been hostile to religion"  (<a href="http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/religious-freedom">2009 Elder Oaks</a>). The funny thing about the word atheism is that it is often given far too much meaning than it deserves. An atheist is someone who simply does not believe in a deity. To my own surprise, I found that it was not necessarily a truth claim or any kind of affirmative statement. An atheist does not necessarily claim that there <em>is</em> <em>no God</em> (no atheist that I have ever met or read would make such a claim); only that the atheist does not have reason to believe in one. I don't believe in leprechauns either, but I could never say that <em>I know</em> they don't exist.

After being able to see the world in a different, and much less narrow light, I find it more and more difficult to remain quiet about my views in order to not disturb others or hurt feelings. I am starting to agree with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins">Dawkins</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens">Hitchens</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Harris_(author)">Harris</a>, and the many other atheist writers and bloggers that I read. There is no reason to continue lending the outrageous amount of protection from criticism, to Religion.  Further than this, and my strong belief in the separation of church and state, I have found a lot of life-affirming happiness in leaving the dim world-view given by religious beliefs, and I would really love to share it with those that I care about. I wish someone had shared it with me at an earlier time in my life.
<p style="text-align: left;"><a href="http://www.xophoros.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Politically_Correct_Comic1.gif"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-46" title="Politically_Correct_Comic" src="http://www.xophoros.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Politically_Correct_Comic1-300x295.gif" alt="Politically Correct about Religion" width="300" height="295" /></a>I can't remember where I found this comic. If someone else knows, please kindly inform me.</p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent the first 22 years of my life being a devout theist; or more specifically, a deeply indoctrinated <a href="http://www.mormon.org/">Mormon</a>. I&#8217;m not going to go into the details right now, but just know that religion has played a big part in my life and the lives of those closest to me. My desire to post on the topic of theism should therefore be an obvious or likely one.</p>
<p>Thanks to many good influences in my life, I have gradually been able to unlearn the myriad superstitions and untie the blindfolds. Over the last couple years, I have finally found peace and comfort in calling myself an atheist, although I must admit that I stopped believing in the church of my upbringing about 8 years ago. &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism">Atheist</a>&#8221; has always been a much scorned word and label that has persistently been the target of unnecessary hate and violence. Indeed the Mormon leaders have felt it necessary to declare a &#8220;new battle &#8230; against atheism&#8221; (<a href="http://nowscape.com/atheism/trib0996.htm">1996 President Gordon B. Hinckley</a>). This is likely because &#8220;Atheism has always been hostile to religion&#8221;  (<a href="http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/religious-freedom">2009 Elder Oaks</a>). The funny thing about the word atheism is that it is often given far too much meaning than it deserves. An atheist is someone who simply does not believe in a deity. To my own surprise, I found that it was not necessarily a truth claim or any kind of affirmative statement. An atheist does not necessarily claim that there <em>is</em> <em>no God</em> (no atheist that I have ever met or read would make such a claim); only that the atheist does not have reason to believe in one. I don&#8217;t believe in leprechauns either, but I could never say that <em>I know</em> they don&#8217;t exist.</p>
<p>After being able to see the world in a different, and much less narrow light, I find it more and more difficult to remain quiet about my views in order to not disturb others or hurt feelings. I am starting to agree with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins">Dawkins</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens">Hitchens</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Harris_(author)">Harris</a>, and the many other atheist writers and bloggers that I read. There is no reason to continue lending the outrageous amount of protection from criticism, to Religion.  Further than this, and my strong belief in the separation of church and state, I have found a lot of life-affirming happiness in leaving the dim world-view given by religious beliefs, and I would really love to share it with those that I care about. I wish someone had shared it with me at an earlier time in my life.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><a href="http://www.xophoros.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Politically_Correct_Comic1.gif"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-46" title="Politically_Correct_Comic" src="http://www.xophoros.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Politically_Correct_Comic1-300x295.gif" alt="Politically Correct about Religion" width="300" height="295" /></a><br />I believe this cartoon came from <a href="http://www.smbc-comics.com/">Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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